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Reign in Blood
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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 03:08 am

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Wytedevil wrote: Reign in Blood wrote: Ah, Laz. No offense, but the way you just worded that makes it sound like you would be willing to kill, rape and steal just for the coin.
Seriously any real man would do that shit for free. Hahahahaaaaa!

:omg



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 04:18 am

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TommyJarvis wrote:
When you believe in something other than the almighty buck wealth will come to you. It has worked for me since I was 18 years old. I agree with him believing what he does. I have given up many things I could have gained money with because of what I believe and the money came to me in other ways. If you're meant to have it then youre meant to have it no matter how you get it. Believe me

 

Like I said I belive there is a God but I dont care for him and what he stands for. I rest my case

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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 04:24 am

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Reign in Blood wrote:

Ah, Laz. No offense, but the way you just worded that makes it sound like you would be willing to kill, rape and steal just for the coin. All sins brought forth from religion. So by your rationale, you have no problem going against these religious beliefs that say it is in fact wrong to do such a thing just because someone is offering the right price.

This can even be taken to the fact that I believe damn near everyone has it in their beliefs to not stab a friend in the back. So you're telling me you'd be willing to stab your best friend of 20+ years in the back and royally fuck him over when he doesn't deserve it, just because someone offered you the right price? Damn, I must be glad i don't know you personally then. ;)


 

Depends on the situation J-Man. A best friend for 20 years well I got one of those but he has never gave me a reason to fuck him over, Yet! He's come close to pushing me to that point a time or two lol

As for all the steal, kill ect... I don't think it's right to do those things but if I was starving and homeless on the street and need money damn right i would beat someones ass and take there cash. It's called survival and only the strong survive in life dude. Fuck religion and you above many here should now I don't follow that crap lol Yes i do think killing someone is wrong (unless it's personal revenge) stealing is wrong, ect... but if it comes down to you got no choice do it or dont survive then shit man got to do what you got to do to survive and unfortunitly this world's survival all depends on money these days.

 To put it another way so maybe you better understand what I'm trying to say here. Lets say we were in another great depression for example and my wife and kids need money for food and a roof over the head and I had no job. I'd would go out and do what i had to do to get enough money so they could eat and have a home to sleep in.

Last edited on Sun Nov 6th, 2005 04:33 am by

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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 05:02 am

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Even so, it's never a good idea to burn a bridge, especially a strong one.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 05:25 am

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I Agree with tommy. Money isn't everything but it's easy to say that when u have $$$. If u don't have then it's more difficult situation. of-course u will not sell your soul to the devil because u don't have money and if u believe in god then maybe money will come to you but then again maybe they will not. Anything is possible but what i don't understand about john sepherd is this: If he rejected playing tommy jarvis in part 6 for religious reasons then why the F13 hell he axcepted the role in the first place ? (F13 5). I mean, playing tommy in F13 5 wasn't against his religion's beliefs ?

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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 09:35 am

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honorius wrote: If he rejected playing tommy jarvis in part 6 for religious reasons then why the F13 hell he axcepted the role in the first place ? (F13 5). I mean, playing tommy in F13 5 wasn't against his religion's beliefs ?Well I think it's pretty obvious he must have went threw some changes between the 2 films... our lives take different directions everyday. I never live the same day twice.

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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 10:20 am

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Death wrote:
Depends on the situation J-Man. A best friend for 20 years well I got one of those but he has never gave me a reason to fuck him over, Yet! He's come close to pushing me to that point a time or two lol

As for all the steal, kill ect... I don't think it's right to do those things but if I was starving and homeless on the street and need money damn right i would beat someones ass and take there cash. It's called survival and only the strong survive in life dude. Fuck religion and you above many here should now I don't follow that crap lol Yes i do think killing someone is wrong (unless it's personal revenge) stealing is wrong, ect... but if it comes down to you got no choice do it or dont survive then shit man got to do what you got to do to survive and unfortunitly this world's survival all depends on money these days.

 To put it another way so maybe you better understand what I'm trying to say here. Lets say we were in another great depression for example and my wife and kids need money for food and a roof over the head and I had no job. I'd would go out and do what i had to do to get enough money so they could eat and have a home to sleep in.

hmm... i wouldn't turn on friends unless i was given a damn good reason, such as finding something out about them that disgusted me or they did something really awful... but not for money. it does seem you're not serious hence the "lol" in your post so yeah, i'll take it that way..

yes i agree that stealing food to survive is forgiveable, and that killing to protect your family or friends, or out of revenge (under certain circumstances) isn't okay, i can see the reason for doing that tho, can't say i disagree with that.. but that wasn't what i was talking about.. i wouldnt kill, steal, etc just because a certain amount of money was offered.

yes i would do what i could to make sure my family survived... but again thats not what i had issue with. saying that if a certain amount of money was offered you'd be willing to do whatever.. is what i dont agree with. but its your life not mine.. so yeah really just saying i couldn't do things that way.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 01:41 pm

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zombie wrote: Death wrote:
Depends on the situation J-Man. A best friend for 20 years well I got one of those but he has never gave me a reason to fuck him over, Yet! He's come close to pushing me to that point a time or two lol

As for all the steal, kill ect... I don't think it's right to do those things but if I was starving and homeless on the street and need money damn right i would beat someones ass and take there cash. It's called survival and only the strong survive in life dude. Fuck religion and you above many here should now I don't follow that crap lol Yes i do think killing someone is wrong (unless it's personal revenge) stealing is wrong, ect... but if it comes down to you got no choice do it or dont survive then shit man got to do what you got to do to survive and unfortunitly this world's survival all depends on money these days.

 To put it another way so maybe you better understand what I'm trying to say here. Lets say we were in another great depression for example and my wife and kids need money for food and a roof over the head and I had no job. I'd would go out and do what i had to do to get enough money so they could eat and have a home to sleep in.

hmm... i wouldn't turn on friends unless i was given a damn good reason, such as finding something out about them that disgusted me or they did something really awful... but not for money. it does seem you're not serious hence the "lol" in your post so yeah, i'll take it that way..

yes i agree that stealing food to survive is forgiveable, and that killing to protect your family or friends, or out of revenge (under certain circumstances) isn't okay, i can see the reason for doing that tho, can't say i disagree with that.. but that wasn't what i was talking about.. i wouldnt kill, steal, etc just because a certain amount of money was offered.

yes i would do what i could to make sure my family survived... but again thats not what i had issue with. saying that if a certain amount of money was offered you'd be willing to do whatever.. is what i dont agree with. but its your life not mine.. so yeah really just saying i couldn't do things that way.

Yeah, that's more so where i was coming from too. You worded it better the second time around, Laz. Doing those things for survival or protection is a different story. But the way it was originally coming across, is that you could be getting by perfectly fine financially, health-wise etc. But just because someone came up to you and offered you the right price you'd be willing to stab a best friend in the back, kill, steal etc. And in a way, in that kind of scenerio it can be perceived much like selling your soul to the devil.

And yeah I know you're not a religious man by any means, and I can understand more so where you're coming from now.

Last edited on Sun Nov 6th, 2005 01:42 pm by Reign in Blood



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 08:51 pm

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The real problem with morals, is taht you both have to agree with them to mean shit.

So for Laz, talking to him about morals that he doens't buy into (ie religious ones) is useless. He has no need to agree to any discourse just because its your morals.

Meanwhile, personally, I don't think its right to steal and kill on the grounds of the greater good. I'd have more respect for Wyte and his idea that you do it on the grounds of doing it for its own sake, not for some bullshit survivalist thing. That means you are valueing something of yours more than something of someone elses, and thats just pure bullshit to me.

but there you go.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 08:58 pm

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Showa58Taro wrote: The real problem with morals, is taht you both have to agree with them to mean shit.

So for Laz, talking to him about morals that he doens't buy into (ie religious ones) is useless. He has no need to agree to any discourse just because its your morals.

Meanwhile, personally, I don't think its right to steal and kill on the grounds of the greater good. I'd have more respect for Wyte and his idea that you do it on the grounds of doing it for its own sake, not for some bullshit survivalist thing. That means you are valueing something of yours more than something of someone elses, and thats just pure bullshit to me.

but there you go.

i clearly stated that i realize its his choice how he does things but i couldnt do that, based on how he made it sound, in his first couple posts... also i'm not into any organized religion myself.. and wasn't speaking morals held by any one religion, just my own...

and no i dont think its valuing your life above someone elses.. by survival, i meant if someone is harming or threatening to harm me or my family/friends.. not killing someone so i can get their share of food or whatever... although i'm not above stealing food if it came to that... so yeah.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 09:15 pm

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zombie wrote: Showa58Taro wrote: The real problem with morals, is taht you both have to agree with them to mean shit.

So for Laz, talking to him about morals that he doens't buy into (ie religious ones) is useless. He has no need to agree to any discourse just because its your morals.

Meanwhile, personally, I don't think its right to steal and kill on the grounds of the greater good. I'd have more respect for Wyte and his idea that you do it on the grounds of doing it for its own sake, not for some bullshit survivalist thing. That means you are valueing something of yours more than something of someone elses, and thats just pure bullshit to me.

but there you go.

i clearly stated that i realize its his choice how he does things but i couldnt do that, based on how he made it sound, in his first couple posts... also i'm not into any organized religion myself.. and wasn't speaking morals held by any one religion, just my own...

and no i dont think its valuing your life above someone elses.. by survival, i meant if someone is harming or threatening to harm me or my family/friends.. not killing someone so i can get their share of food or whatever... although i'm not above stealing food if it came to that... so yeah.

I didn't mean just you Zombs, I mean that in terms of Moral discourse if you can't agree on the basic tenants fromt he very start, then you can't have a discourse which is fair enough.

Now for your point (and many peoples points it seems) its more deplorable in my opinion to steal food from someone else in order to feed yourself and your family than to do so on the sheer fuck-off-ness of stealing their food. if you are putting up a fence of being higher than others by saying you are doing it for the greater good, then you clearly have no estimation of good. If you go the Wyte way and say that you will kill and steal food because you choose to, fuck teh consequences, then I disagree but I must accept that. But if you do it and say "I did it to feed my family" then in my estimation its cowardice and is no excuse. (Incidentally, zombs, I'm not pointing fingers at you, just stating my feelings about this whole "if I had to" debate.) because the basic fact is its not ever a "must do" thing, its a choice. And to treat it like you 'had to' do it is just not acknowledging facts.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 09:29 pm

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Showa58Taro wrote: I didn't mean just you Zombs, I mean that in terms of Moral discourse if you can't agree on the basic tenants fromt he very start, then you can't have a discourse which is fair enough.

Now for your point (and many peoples points it seems) its more deplorable in my opinion to steal food from someone else in order to feed yourself and your family than to do so on the sheer fuck-off-ness of stealing their food. if you are putting up a fence of being higher than others by saying you are doing it for the greater good, then you clearly have no estimation of good. If you go the Wyte way and say that you will kill and steal food because you choose to, fuck teh consequences, then I disagree but I must accept that. But if you do it and say "I did it to feed my family" then in my estimation its cowardice and is no excuse. (Incidentally, zombs, I'm not pointing fingers at you, just stating my feelings about this whole "if I had to" debate.) because the basic fact is its not ever a "must do" thing, its a choice. And to treat it like you 'had to' do it is just not acknowledging facts.

yes i understand that its a choice, i didnt mean to imply otherwise.. and i'm not above facing consequences for my actions. not saying i'm higher than anyone else for doing it for certain reasons. also didn't say i'd steal food from someone who had it already.. but if it was available, like in the grocery store, and not already in someone elses possesion, then i wouldn't hesitate. killing people would be just for defending or protecting my family, or revenge purposes if that person killed someone i loved, again not putting myself above anyone else, i'm the last person who'd do that. lol... just stating how i'd react... i'm not doing it for the greater good. i wouldnt claim to know what the greater good is. lol..

and i realize you're not pointing solely at me, but since i'm one of the ones who started this debate, i feel i should get out what i'm trying to say.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 09:33 pm

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zombie wrote: yes i understand that its a choice, i didnt mean to imply otherwise.. and i'm not above facing consequences for my actions. not saying i'm higher than anyone else for doing it for certain reasons. also didn't say i'd steal food from someone who had it already.. but if it was available, like in the grocery store, and not already in someone elses possesion, then i wouldn't hesitate. killing people would be just for defending or protecting my family, or revenge purposes if that person killed someone i loved, again not putting myself above anyone else, i'm the last person who'd do that. lol... just stating how i'd react... i'm not doing it for the greater good. i wouldnt claim to know what the greater good is. lol..

and i realize you're not pointing solely at me, but since i'm one of the ones who started this debate, i feel i should get out what i'm trying to say.

See this is where we just differ. I think that selecting that choice is wrong by all standards, and shows a clear lack of exploration of any other choice. Maybe I'm just being silly, but if you just decide to steal from a grocery store, are you not jeopardizing the store itself and stealing food which someone else needs to buy for their family. Ultimately, unless you steal an apple from a public garden, you aren't making a choice to steal food that is up for grabs, you're taking something you have no claim to. As far as I go, there's no reason in the world to do that. I might be wrong, but that just seems like its counterproductive. Imagine if everyone took that line of thinking (let us make it a universal maxim) then you'd have nobody paying for anythiing and everyone would stela, which means therew ould be nothing. Now if you can't say that everyone can do it, how can you justify it? Its inconceivable!



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 09:44 pm

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hmm.... okay..



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 Posted: Sun Nov 6th, 2005 10:06 pm

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lol, so that ended that debate...



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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2005 12:10 am

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Showa58Taro wrote: lol, so that ended that debate...
no it didn't... lol. just had to collect my thoughts is all.

i agree that it is wrong to steal and kill.. but there are times, very rare extreme times, when i would make a judgement to do that... and i wouldn't be afraid to face the consequences of my decision... i understand that it could hurt someone else if i took food, no matter how small, from the grocery store, and it would eat at me knowing that i could have taken away from someone else in a similiar situation... but my family and friends' wellbeing is very important to me. if it was steal or they'd starve then i'd steal after i'd tried anything else i could think to do...

let's look at it this way.. if you saw that a friend of yours was getting beat up and he needed your help, would you help your friend or would you be too worried about what could happen to the attacker if you got involved and things went wrong, or the effect it might have on the family of the attacker?



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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2005 12:33 am

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That way i see it is if you can live with yourself knowiung the thigs you have done and are capible of doing then so be it. Am I a good person, I can be. Have I made many mistakes, hell yeah! have i dont some bad shit in my life, yes,  Can i live with myself knowing these things, Damn right.

So there ya go :D

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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2005 12:40 am

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Just as long as everyone here has a high self-esteem....it's all good:thumb



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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2005 12:41 am

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Myers wrote: Just as long as everyone here has a high self-esteem....it's all good:thumb
does that leave me out?



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 Posted: Mon Nov 7th, 2005 12:42 am

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zombie wrote: Myers wrote: Just as long as everyone here has a high self-esteem....it's all good:thumb
does that leave me out?
you don't have a high self-esteem?:(



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